What happens to you deep within when you loose your freedom in a moments time? Listen to our guest Arjan Erkel from the Netherlands share his wisdom that helped him live through 604 days in captivity and learn who he rescues now. Enjoy...
Hope has moved our guest Arjan Erkel forward to create relief for humanity in everything he does. Especially during the darkest days of being held in captivity by rebels this hope in combination with curiosity and speaking the truth kept him alive. Enjoy listening...
The title of the book we are spoke about in this episode is: One Man’s Story of Trials and Triumph After being Taken Hostage in Dagestan
To learn more about Arjan Erkel's story, books and his present work go to: https://arjanerkel.nl/author
Watch the video of Episode 30 with Arjan Erkel on our YouTube channel Moving To Oneness: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzEWKXR957EmpmXvG9Ygbhw
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In Love and Light,
Meilin & Denise
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Moving to Oneness; Nourishing Curiosity; Embracing Differences; Becoming One
Meilin Ehlke 0:43
Hope for humanity, I think is the underlying thread through the conversation that you'll experienced today on the Moving to Oneness podcast.
Meilin Ehlke 0:57
Hello, I'm your host Meilin. I'm here in sunny Germany in the morning, and I have a wonderful guest sitting in the Netherlands, right now.
Arjan Erkel 1:09
Yeah, that's true. Good morning.
Meilin Ehlke 1:11
That's rare, normally they've always been somewhere else far away with long time differences. And this gentleman, I have with me today has endured a lot, but always had, I think, a born passion within. Deep within him to always hope, or see something positive in every single moment. So welcome, with me please, Arjan Erkel, in the Netherlands. Hello Arjan.
Arjan Erkel 1:47
Hello Meilin. Thank you for having me on your podcast.
Meilin Ehlke 1:50
Yeah. So, probably a lot of people, I have, who are listening may not know you a little bit but I would love to speak about that you had always an interest in supporting humanity. You went already as a young man to Africa to support people that were in areas of crisis, like the Republic of Sierra Leone. Right?
Arjan Erkel 2:18
Yeap.
Meilin Ehlke 2:22
You didn't care from the inside, right, what will arrive. You live so in the moment that's what, I sense, that when you live in the moment you're always prepared. You have a way to adjust yourself, rather fast so even in these crisis zones. And you went over there with Doctors Without Borders, Correct?
Arjan Erkel 2:45
Yeah, the Ärzte ohne Grenzen.
Meilin Ehlke 2:47
Ja, genau.
Arjan Erkel 2:50
Yeah, when I was 24 in 1994, that was my first time that I went to Uganda, and since then I really enjoyed the work and like you said, living in the moment or maybe having good self trust, that helps to be flexible and to be able to have a variety of opportunities.
Meilin Ehlke 3:14
What I'm really interested in, I will speak later also about your book. What I'm interested in is what made you curious about learning other cultures?
Arjan Erkel 3:30
Yeah?
Meilin Ehlke 3:30
But then also going there where most people wouldn't go. Right? Because it was more or less in a time where there is danger or other people perceive as dangerous and may have told you, "Oh don't go. That's too dangerous". But what inside of you made you go anyway?
Arjan Erkel 3:50
Yeah, that's a that's an interesting question. Of course, when I was younger I like traveling already, and like, history, geography, at school. And I think those combinations made me choose to study cultural anthropology. I have lots of friends already with a migration background at that time. In the 80s in the 70s there were not so many foreigners in our counties. And then, yeah, when I first time I went to Uganda, that was really so much different than so much interesting to to relive your life, I think, because of course when you're from the west and you have a good life, everything is already gotten like flattened out for you. And when you travel to other countries, you have to invent sometimes. The new structures, the new social structures, a new way of living in a new culture and that curiosity, always was from within. But why it was there, I don't know, maybe because I had a good base, maybe, because I had a nice family that they gave me the power or the strength to find out and be a sort of a curiosity person, something like that.
Meilin Ehlke 5:10
Yeah, but I think sometimes too. Or I share that sometimes, if I reflect on my own life, why am I interested in people and how they function, you know, and what makes them tick. I think I always was observed already people since I was a very young girl.
Arjan Erkel 5:31
Hm, hm.
Meilin Ehlke 5:32
I looked at them with different eyes, so that's why I was interested, right? Or I can remember sitting with my father in cafes.
Arjan Erkel 5:40
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 5:40
And speaking and I said, "Oh, where do they come from? What is their story?" And my dad always invited people to sit with us on a table somewhere. Right? I grew up here in Germany my dad's American, so he was a little bit more inquisitive, not as shy as for example, my mother right, who came from East Germany. There was a different way of communicating and that I always found very interesting. I think those two things seeing that you can be a little bit of inquisitive to get a conversation going and to start to share experiences.
Arjan Erkel 6:19
Yes,
Meilin Ehlke 6:20
Right? That is very enriching, and fun.
Arjan Erkel 6:23
Yes, for sure for people like us, but other people they just like to have everything the same all the time. Not only the artistic people but some people go to the same holiday resort every year. Some people go to the same movie and hear the same music. So you need to have a little bit of curiosity. And I think if you're curious, you also admit that you don't know everything. Because of course if you think you know everything, then it also doesn't stimulate you to look for more things around the world. So maybe I knew that I was not perfect, but I always had a sense of learning, and the interest of meeting other people for sure. Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 7:09
Yeah, genau. I know the interest of meeting people and I think we're born this way or it is also a bit of our purpose why we're here. Yeah.
Arjan Erkel 7:22
In that way, we're herd people of course like animals. We are surrounded by other people maybe we even a part of a tribe. So, yeah, for me, people it's always nice to be with people, but also to be around with myself is also nice, so I can do both.
Meilin Ehlke 7:42
Yeah, so that's really interesting so I read your book. Everyone Arian has been held hostage. And this is really something many of us fear. It is one of the deepest rooted fears for many people to lose your freedom, or to lose their freedom, or even for me to lose my freedom as I said, we were just discussing. I love freedom. I love to go left or right when I walk, you know I'm not even staying on the path. I jumped the fences when I was a little girl. Left as a young woman to go to other countries to live there and learn a bit about them. So, if I have to think about anything that holds me back, it is always, or has been the fear of losing the freedom of being, of being restricted. But on your travels and on your desire to support people around the world. You went to Dagestan.
Arjan Erkel 8:51
Yep.
Meilin Ehlke 8:51
And there suddenly one night you were kidnapped and taken away in a rather brutal fast way, and then you had to adjust very quickly. In reading your book what I loved so much you were brought to different places that were rather dark and always very tight and small, and the fear of being shot. It was not just a kidnaping, but there was also an underlying energy of war, of rebellion and of anger, right. And you felt all of this suddenly against you and suddenly you didn't know how to maneuver, or how to adjust adds to this fear of not even knowing in every single moment, do you do the right thing. It's been ingrained in you. Share a little bit more about that feeling. Because I think I would love to use your story to inspire others to see in their life that they can be much more flexible. That they can relax much more into a situation to create what they desire. To create in life and to become even so much more than they are.
Arjan Erkel 10:21
Yeah, that's also my message it says, you always have a freedom of choice. But sometimes you yourself are the person that takes you hostage, even in free life. But in my kidnap situation I was kidnapped with lots of force. The three guys, they came to my car they stopped the car, and then they beat me up, and I thought I was going to die. I thought they were going to murder me because I didn't understand what was going on. Of course I knew I could be kidnapped and then in the car already, I had a gun against my head and a gun against my chest. Then, of course, you start wondering how flexible, am I and how are they going to perceive me, because every word is really important. And then it started already, "Okay what can I say? What can I not say? I should be quiet. I should not be a hero because they might shoot me". And then later on when they put me in my cell. It was below the ground in the mountains they dug out a hole for me, partly as their house as well. They had a hide out under the ground in the mountains in the North Caucasus. And then what you said, life was upside down of course. I was a director. I had lots of freedom I had a better position than most people among refugees, of course, and then suddenly, I have to listen to guys with masks with guns, who threatened to kill me if Doctors Without Borders was not going to pay for me. And of course I had all the fears. Every day I could die. Every day they could cut my throat. I could say the wrong things. Maybe because in daily life we also look at other people and sometimes respond to them, according to what we think they want to hear. But if you are really free you consider your own words more important, and your own thoughts. And that was really difficult. How do I stick to myself without creating more problems for myself. And how am I going to, to live with, for example, lack of comfort?Because I had to go to the toilet and two people were standing behind me. I couldn't choose what to eat I couldn't choose what kind of bed I want to sleep in. All kinds of things you have to get used to, but most of the time, like you said there's like pain or frustration or anger or disappointment, or you feel like I don't deserve this. And all this kind of feelings are in the way for the positive energy and looking forward to what you can do. And it took me some time until I think, three weeks and I cried a lot, I had pain and I miss my parents. I was wondering why me? Why do I deserve it? I didn't have such a bad life that got, or maybe it is my karma. I don't deserve this. But at the end it's definitely what you say you have the freedom to make the choice, "How am I going to deal with this". And I decided I'm going to make the best out of it. And I think most people want to make the best out of their lives. Of course, some people can't, but they still want to do it, and that if you want to make the best out of it you have to start looking at: What did I do wrong? What should I do more? What should I do less? You meet other people because on your own you, I couldn't escape. I couldn't make my room bigger. I couldn't change the food. I couldn't get my own books. I couldn't get TV. So there were so many things I couldn't influence. But sometimes we don't believe that we can influence other people or that we cannot influence fate around us. And, yeah, I somehow had the power from within, that I could manage to make contact with those guys and that they are the ones that could change my situation.
Meilin Ehlke 14:22
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. I always say in any situation, we have to look in a person, in any relation, or relationship you have every single day, for the good which is all behind or deep within or has been covered up within. And that we all react on certain things because of our own experiences, with each person that we meet, and ourselves.
Arjan Erkel 14:49
Can I say something about that? Because they were wearing masks, but lots of people put on masks, anyway, because not many people show really themselves. And in Dutch or maybe in German as well you have to work, unmask. I don't know if it's an English word.
Meilin Ehlke 15:04
Yeah, ja in English they say that too. To let go of the masks to put them aside to be authentic and to show yourself.
Arjan Erkel 15:10
So I had to unmask them. Two times, from the real mask, but also from their wicked behavior. And I had to also unmask myself because also they had the wrong image of me, of course. So, I think we, if we unmask ourselves, then we also help each other to find the real person.
Meilin Ehlke 15:36
Yeah, so that's what I read was the truth, you spoke a lot of truth and I think that is the fastest way to unmask. You had to go a little slower because there's always the second of making the wrong move, the wrong choice, but you started to really observe, right, to watch them, and test them. But you always tested with the truth.
Arjan Erkel 15:58
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 15:59
And I think that was interesting to see, so that a trust could be built up. And there was a genuine interest, also. You know, okay you are alone, who do you speak with after weeks and weeks. Luckily you spoke Russian and a good thing out of this is you got much better probably in a Russian conversation. You ask them about themselves, and I think this is a really quick way to unmask, and you also shared about your needs, even if it was, simple is the wrong word, because you need to do it. If you go, you know, to the toilet it's a desire and need we need to do, but they adjusted. You found first something where was the same base that they could rely to, and then later you even went to the whole philosophy of conversation of your religions of how they grew up, or how you grew up. It became more of tapestry of a carpet that was then shown more and more because more colors were unveiled.
Arjan Erkel 17:18
True. Yeah, that's nicely said. Because I think in modern times or nowadays, maybe we are too busy to really find out about other people, or we're too self centered and, because we want to show on Facebook or Instagram who we are. It's all about me or ourselves, but it's much more interesting to find out also in teams, in organizations who are we really and how can we make each other strong to reach the goals. Because I needed to survive. And they needed the money. At the end that the goals are also the same. But in the meantime, yeah, I had to find the modus operandi, how to work together, and how to get my situation better. Because they were not interested in that, in the beginning to make my situation better, but then after a couple of weeks they understood I'm a nice person and that they could respect me not for my religion for example. Or they then gave me two books. Then there is also the macho side. Like you said, there were so many more points of maybe touching each other not real touchy but we started to connect. And that made it easier for both of us.
Meilin Ehlke 18:34
Yeah, because probably a lot of people are interested I think, what you think about in the first moments. It was so funny. You mentioned the movie Papillon, so I think our generation was really interested in it. Steve McQueen played that a role and Dustin Hoffman. When I saw that movie the first time, what I found really fascinating how mentally he stayed fit by even eating then the insects.
Arjan Erkel 19:08
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 19:08
But this is really the ultimate test, in a way, we have this a little bit now. We are for the first time in caged. We are not by force and not by restriction you even have to, you know, knock on the door so you could go to the toilet and wait for someone to come. These things we don't need, we can go into the kitchen and eat something. But mentally, how to stay fit, and stay alert? And I wanted to ask you that too, because there was so much quietness. Except maybe when they moved you a few times, but most of the time, it was so quiet around you, so you had a lot of time to become aware of your own body and
Arjan Erkel 19:56
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 19:56
of your own senses and the ears. So you know I was always thinking, you must have gotten such good ears that you could hear so much more. And did you realize that? Or did you realize that when you came back then into in a way civilization when you came back to the Russian airport or, which is really loud suddenly right or the machines of those airplanes. And those cars or then even back in the Netherlands where suddenly there was TV and radio and 1000 people speaking.
Arjan Erkel 20:02
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 20:33
How did you first get used to the quietness? And keeping your movement, not giving up and then later moving back into that new noise, again, how? What did that do with you?
Arjan Erkel 20:48
Really not the noise, but it's more all the impulses. Because my hearing, maybe became better but definitely now it's not so good anymore as before, but it's more paying attention to small things. For example, I can see your face, but they had the masks on, so then you start concentrating on the eyes, or started concentrating on the top of the nose or on the lips. Because I couldn't read their faces so I had to listen to their breathing. I had to watch much more the signs of language. Because you can see how people stand, how people will behave if they're nervous or not. All these kind of things, so that the reading of a person I definitely learned much more there because it was more, much more important as well. Again the quietness and the silence and the boredom. But we also have nowadays because we can't party. We can't go out. We can't go to restaurants. Yeah, I don't miss it so much at the moment, because I had this experience before and I knew I can manage on my own and I can find happiness from my own thoughts, from my own memories, form my own visualization of the future. So there's so much to do in your own mind, that I can be busy all the time, even nowadays. We don't have to sit still, we don't have to be bored. There are so many choices still to make. We can learn. We can become better family members, become friends with the neighbors, if you want. So, this sort of lack of.... Sometimes I call it a bit, what is the word lethargic, so that people don't have the energy to deal with things they can control. They're so out of control and then the only thing is to do nothing. For me it's a season of still creativity, of finding out new things, doing new things. And that is what I miss. It's also part of resilience, I think, or dealing with perseverance. Because, definitely in the West, most people had an easy life, not too many disasters, and also the idea that we can make life. I think people mix up making life and that life is made for them.
Meilin Ehlke 23:18
Yeah, I believe, a lot of people numb themselves. I've done it in my life too, right? So that you don't feel. Yeah, but one day, you cannot not do it anymore. You're sick and tired of it.
Arjan Erkel 23:32
What I also learned is gratitude for things you can do or gratitude for what those people were doing to me. Because they in beginning didn't like me, they just feed me because they had to keep me alive. But at a certain moment, they also started to be human beings. For me it was in the beginning functional, because I needed their human beingness to treat me as a human being, but later when it became real from my side as well, I made much more contact. Because if you're real, like you said, if you're true, dealing people with truth. If you're true to yourself, it makes contact much more easy. I don't know how you do it nowadays?
Meilin Ehlke 24:16
I go always into quiet times here and there, and really do ask myself, "Do I live myself"? What am I not living? What I would love to live.
Arjan Erkel 24:28
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 24:30
I'm like you, I can be very quiet and in a tight space but then sometimes I like to go out and be amongst people. But I also go into seclusion and I can be very happy in these phases. But then I know I'm connected to so much. I can sit in the sun for hours and just in a way communicate or sense that there is so much, I'm then so happy to be alive. It's hard to explain, it's hard to put words to it, but this is what I've always felt like. I love walking barefoot since I'm a little girl over everything and I feel nature and it's texture. And just these things make me happy. I can be happy when I see a beautiful flower blossoming.
Arjan Erkel 25:20
It's nice and other people that need to first choose one gram of cocaine and then they need to see hundreds of other people. Yeah, it's also nice for them, but it's easier if you can be happy with your flower or with your insect in the garden.
Meilin Ehlke 25:36
So that maybe it goes back as you said, the hope, and you must have had hope. And there was one thing, because I love nature I've been a landscape architect once and so I want to ask. You wrote one moment you developed an appreciation of the beauty of nature. So, that because I had think about you, you were allowed to go out, most of the time only once or twice just to relieve yourself.
Arjan Erkel 26:04
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 26:05
And then even after a while you were able to stretch and they trusted you enough, that you could move. But you were there in the mountains with rather clear skies, most of the time, and you started probably two sense every little change in nature. And you even wrote that you came from Rotterdam, you are more of a city boy, and suddenly you had this vastness of a landscape around you. I was thinking, what did that nature and the mountains there teach you?
Arjan Erkel 26:43
Oh, God, I have to think about it. Like you said, in the beginning I didn't appreciate the nature so much. Of course it's nice you see it's a nice view but at a certain moment. After the winter, which was my darkest moment, because the days are short, lots of darkness all this symbolism of death is around me. But it was also a new beginning because the winter is also the darkest day and then all new days will be longer and longer and longer. My life will also be lighter and lighter. But then I also noticed, again, birds start to sing, trees and the Christmas trees, become more green. So I think, nature, made me more aware of the circle of life. Somethings, and they go into sleep like a bear or trees, and then later on they move on again. So for me it was also the symbolism of of new life. Being reborn. Getting the energy from the things around you. So these kind of things that became also messages of hope, nature can also be the message of hope, because it shows that there's new life. It shows there's old life. I like for example coaching and walking through the forest because you can see there's crossroads in nature. Sometimes you have to cut the trees that are dead and you have to get rid of them. Then you have to feed the other parts of nature so that it grows more. And if you treat yourself also as part of nature. And you can also get the rhythm of nature I think that's that's the importance.
Meilin Ehlke 28:45
Yeah, I had to experience myself. One time I was pinned down by a huge boulder and I thought in that moment I couldn't move. I could scream for help, but I couldn't move and I said to myself if I would rescue myself my head would be crushes or my other leg would and I would not have one healthy leg. And in that moment, too, I understood one big thing that I am part of all. Really I could suddenly sense, the rock and how I survived this pressure of this huge boulder on top of me, was really feeling, even the particles of that mountain, of that stone. Right?
Arjan Erkel 29:35
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 29:35
And the material and seeing that we could go, not that two rough edges coming together, but that we could move into each other.
Arjan Erkel 30:36
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 30:36
Yeah. And, I remember also when I was lying there, only once, or two times I felt scared. And I felt pain in that moment, and one time I had the thought that no one would find me, because I was so high up on the mountain. That I could not see my son anymore or my husband, my family, and at that time, I knew there was something. I said, I just have to find ways to readjust, and just think, or stay connected to them so I can go on and be found. And you did the same. You always were fearful in that moment when you thought you could not see your family maybe ever again or your girlfriend. The people you really cherish in life. But then comes the moment where the hope comes back, and then suddenly these people carry you through. Right? My son at that time, he was maybe eight, I can't remember, or nine probably, yeah. To see him again, is what kept me going, to make another screen for help or changing the language. Or directing them telepathically where I'm lying. And you use the birthdays of your loved ones to keep you going to create smaller increments. To create a timeline for yourself.
Arjan Erkel 31:23
Yeah. Counting down. I counted a lot, because I counted the days how many I was there already, but I also counted down to dates that I didn't know for sure that would be my release date. For example, my father had his birthday in May and then I thought it's 77 days from today. But yesterday it was 78 days. Tomorrow it's 76 days, and that gave me first of all positivity that I could think about my father, but then also it saved me two days, and it was yesterday 78 days and tomorrow 76 and in the moment of thinking that it gave me already a yeah, it is already two days shorter. Of course I was fooling myself, and I sometimes I called myself 'Ministry of Good News'
Meilin Ehlke 32:06
I love that.
Arjan Erkel 32:08
Because it does not help to be the 'Minister of Bad News'. But to think about people, like you said, doesn't work or not, telepathy? For sure lots of people thought about me as well. And afterwards when I was released, these people asked me, "Did you feel it? Did you feel all our energy"? And I had to disappoint them, because I didn't feel it. Maybe it helped. I always said maybe it helped, because my fear was not my fear, my worst moments were when I felt completely left out. That no one thought about me. Maybe it was even, that I was not forgotten but that maybe people didn't care about me. So that were the most painful moments. Of course that I was only thinking in myself. And because we feel within a lots of things. Also one thing I learned, the less you feel within the more positive your life is. Because I can start thinking about, what do you think about me. It's easier to ask, "What do you think"? Because I can go on and on for hours. I did it there also sometimes. The easiest is to live with people that you can connect with and you can ask for clarity. Okay, not everyone wants to give it but if you're in a good relationship with your wife, with your family, with your team, and if trust comes out and safety it's much, much better. So I, it's not an answer to your question, but my relationship became more and more better with those guys. So the conversation became more higher level, but also the basis of trust, and my knowledge about my future also increased.
Meilin Ehlke 33:57
Yeah, because you always had to live in a way in a moment, because you did not know is it my last day, and things were always postponed, postponed and hope. And you didn't know if they were just telling a story or not. Where they trying, right? there was always this, I don't know, this mishmash of information.
Arjan Erkel 34:23
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 34:24
But still you trust it. I think if I could feel that right in that book. You trusted one person enough to know he is really trying to get you back home.
Arjan Erkel 34:38
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 34:39
So he could get his funds for the revolution, right? They needed weapons for or whatever to fight for their own civic rights,
Arjan Erkel 34:48
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 34:49
and which is also an other topic. I really wish one day we would appreciate and respect each other around this world, so that is my biggest intention. That's also why I have this show, to show that we are all One. That we have so many parts that are similar. And you felt that as well. The basic needs, right?
Arjan Erkel 35:16
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 35:17
To be loved by a person. We all have families, parents. Right? The need for friends, good food, and sharing, even if one person is a rather quiet one or introvert and other ones out, but this mix that is a vibration. And we've been, I always think, been pulled so apart anyway over the last 1000 years to become very individualized individuals, but we, as you said at the beginning, we are people that love to live in community and we once did. So my hope is one day we are again in our natural state, where we all appreciate each other and move around the world free without borders. Yeah, and that we can roam this planet with more ease and an understanding of each other.
Arjan Erkel 36:12
Yeah. We need time for that also. Because we don't take the time for sure to get to know each other. The media doesn't help us because they want to have it black and white, because it's easier if they can frame us with the good guys and the bad guys. But there's lots of gray in life, but sometimes you don't want to see, because gray is not an interesting color, and lots of attention is on gray guys, it get a bit philosophical. That's the biggest and the nicest area, because that's where colors come together, people come together. Where we can build and if you polarize then it's more for destruction.
Meilin Ehlke 37:00
You polarize. I love that. To depolarize, how to dissolve that? And where in life, do we polarize ourselves even, Right? Where do we contract ourselves? Where do we restrict ourselves through thought patterns?
Arjan Erkel 37:31
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 37:32
Yeah, all these things, and are they as important as we believe they are?
Arjan Erkel 37:40
True, true, yeah. But that is the only thing you can find out yourself on the individual basis. Lots of people don't challenge themselves in that.
Meilin Ehlke 37:49
It's a good one. So everyone challenge yourself. Take it from a man who has challenged himself, every single day. I think you read books over and over. You started challenging yourself, how to play games with yourself. You challenged yourself, even to test statistics.
Meilin Ehlke 38:11
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 38:12
I thought that was great. You played backgammon over and over and over with yourself. You were lucky you got one day one. So when you were in their, let's say 23 hours in your hole, you were able to see and to test new borders. Right? The borders of restrictions. Oh, it is 50 - 50, more or less, after I don't know what 3000 games or more that you played.
Arjan Erkel 38:39
Yeah, but in normal life you would not appreciate it to play 21 times. I played 21 times backgammon against myself every day because maybe I became autistic. For the first time when I got this present, that was a big present for me. I thought oh I can go to play I have something to do. So I played 21 times and then I told myself, from now on, every day I am going to play 21 times, then I can count. Is black better than white or white better than black? Like you said, after 3000 times it became really 50-50. And then I thought, yeah in my school time learning statistics, it makes sense. Then, from even playing this dull game, you can let your thoughts wander again. Yeah that's bringing back your question in the beginning. Why did you go out? Why did you like to travel?Why did you like to study other people? I think it's, I can easily make my mind go wander around instead of sticking to one item. But sometimes it's good of course to be disciplined, to focus, to work on one thing, but it's also nice to let it go and enjoy life around us. And then you're in the moment, actually both times you're in the moment. When I have to write a book I have to write a book. I have to say to myself, at this time one chapter per week or 10 pages per day. Then, if that's done wander around or I always call it collateral advantage. We always talk about collateral damage. If we do things and we're open for other ideas for other adventures the whole world opens up like a flower. I think you have to make yourself open for other ideas for other people, of course, sometimes you have to stick to your own goals to be disciplined to be structured, but let it happen sometimes. And I was already a person who did that, and that made it even worthwhile during my kidnapping to see the good things. Like learning Russian. Learning how to communicate with people. Learning how to become strong. Learning how to stay fit mentally and physically. So, it's a growth mindset versus the being stuck I think. Maybe not.
Meilin Ehlke 41:07
I like that. So everyone do read Arjan's book. Arjan you also wrote it so nice. It's a very, even though it is a topic that could be depressing and you went through an experience, but it was a nice to read. I was really in there with you, reading it. And your development you don't explain it, but through your words, you wrote it in a way that I was there. I was noticing your development, the change of the relationships, the way of how you see your life. And that I really enjoyed. It was taking me right into the situation.
Arjan Erkel 42:02
Thank you.
Meilin Ehlke 42:03
I really appreciated that because it made me feel and also at the same time think what is in my life. So it is really where am I restricted? Oh, I'm sitting now in front of the monitor on the couch. Yeah and you barely had place to move it. How often do we restrict ourselves of movement, of ability to change, right? Even though we have rooms to walk in and sit on that couch and you had, you know, barely space to move in, when you were back in the hole. You got moved in a few to other spots where you had maybe a little bit more of a movement, right? But, how often do we do that, not noticing? And to say, "No more! Why do I do this?" that came up. And I think for that your book is really an interesting read to unravel what we carry. It's maybe even already here from your ancestors of what to unravel, to un-tighten. So it feels like, you know, we're so tight, all the strings are so tight, so they can become loose that the fear can disappears and all of those strings can freely move around to better create what we want. Yeah, this holding oneself so tight I think is the strongest that came through.
Arjan Erkel 43:47
What do you think we do that? Why do we think we hold ourselves back?
Meilin Ehlke 43:51
And just going into that energy so if we restrict, "Oh, we're scared of what comes. So scared of the new experience this being scared of the unfathomed. And in this same time of not fitting in."
Arjan Erkel 44:12
Yeah, or losing. Fear of losing maybe our life is too good? I don't know. Because we also fear, what you said the future, because we were not sure about what the future is going to bring us if we change. We were also afraid that we lose things. I always say to most of the people. You can always come back to your old life, because people think, if they make a big change that they will lose everything. But I say, "No you've reached that point. You have your intelligence. You've shown that you can reach that top. And if you fail, you can always go back to your old position again. You can at least build up until that position. Even nowadays with people losing their work losing, their companies, of course it's painful, I don't want to advise them that it's easy. I want to advise them, but at least, they've shown that they can do this already. So, why can't they do it again? Maybe is also helpful. And it doesn't mean their life is over or they can never do it again. Of course, you need to have some luck sometimes in life, but lots of things you can influence and under lots of even difficult circumstances you can also flourish. And that's the interesting thing. You can flourish, yeah, even in Corona time. You can come in the flow through Corona. Because there are also people who flourish now. The people who sell all the equipment or order the plastic glass. That is their time of their life. So, it shows that even in crisis people can flourish, but we have to realize, "okay, maybe I can also flourish in a crisis instead of the crisis will always make me go down".
Meilin Ehlke 46:07
Yeah, that's an expression of, you know, always feeling as a victim and in the moment I don't see myself as a victim and that, as you said so beautifully. I have a choice to change every moment. And as you also said that, once I have an experience or then you know sometimes you can take little steps like you did again. Start with different new things, or different changes or changing a pattern, slowly but surely and because each experience is changes us forever, and repetition creates a comfort, right? So, to set out the vision you always had the vision. You always knew you would get free in a way. Even though there were the days you felt, "I will never make it. It's never gonna work, right?
Arjan Erkel 46:58
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 46:59
But it's like myself I thought, I would never be found, but deep within I knew I would be found. I then thought if I'm not on the boat they will notice and if they don't notice by then, they will notice when they're all at dinner. And luckily the sun, you know won't go down till 10 o'clock at night. Then they still maybe come with a helicopter. So really deep within there is this hope, and the vision set to be found. And you had that the whole time, even then it took so much longer. I want to I don't want to spoil too much of the book. Right? Then you were told at the beginning you would be released soon. And that kept you going. So everyone do read that book I'm gonna put notes in there. Arjan you also created something out of this experiences where you help girls to be rescued out of also rather brutal situations and speak to that.
Arjan Erkel 48:05
It is called 'Free a girl'. Because worldwide there are so many young girls, minor girls under 16 being taken into intersexual exploitation. And we release them. We work in India and in Thailand. Together with informants we try to find those girls and then, together with the police we will get them out of their misery. And I started because when I was kidnapped, I felt that I wanted to go home. Every day I missed my mother, I missed my father. But at that time I was already 32 years old, and I was still crying every now and then. I felt the pain of how come no one helps me. How come you forget about me. And then when I heard about all this misery going on in the life of those poor kids ending up in brothels in India I thought, "Why isn't the government fighting for that? Why isn't there a whole lot of people in India or in Thailand fighting for it". And of course they were but there was not enough. And then I got together with three colleagues, we decided to start 'Free a girl' to fight this human trafficking. And since then we've freed more than 4500 children. And that's amazing. Most of them they go home. But some of them don't even know where they're coming from and we help them. Some of the girls were even sent to University. It's a whole program. It's called school for justice, and if they want they can study law, and they will be the lawyers or maybe even the judges of the future. Or the district attorney that might fight also human trafficking so then the circle is round from being held hostage as well, but then they can fight human trafficking. And that's amazing because the first girls have really already finished University and they start becoming lawyers now. And that really helps. Some people say, "oh it's only one girl out of 1 million", but I know how it is that when I came back, I still remember my mother waiting for me in the terminal at the airport of Rotterdam. Her arms were so wide, like almost three meters, but of course she's only 160cm tall.
Meilin Ehlke 50:25
Yeah.
Arjan Erkel 50:26
And the smile on her face seeing me stepping down the stairs and that's what I wish for all those girls. I was released on Easter. It's very symbolic date, because of the resurrection of Jesus and I also came from under the ground, half dead, and I could live again. And this second chance I also want to give to other people, not only the girls. My mission is that people at least think about their freedom, think about their choices and that they can change their life if they want and that they can really become a new person even starting today.
Meilin Ehlke 51:06
I love that vision, and wow. Thank you for all of this energy you put into helping other women, girls, people connect back to themselves.
Arjan Erkel 51:25
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 51:26
Right? And they see hope and change. Because I think this energy when we are people of hope and we've created once hope for others. Then others can synchronize to us. I'm a big believer of this when the moment it's there. And so, it is like a huge ripple effect and it should not be underestimated. Even if people tell you, "Oh, it is only 4500. It's a huge number, each single person is worth it. Right? And we can't fathom what that one person will do.
Arjan Erkel 52:03
Yeah. But that's unlocking potential in general. Sometimes people come to me and they say, "after I heard your story I started to study again. After I heard your story I decided to divorce", because it's a great tool that they will go through, but they knew this already, that they want to go to study, maybe they wanted to have a divorce, maybe they want to go traveling. But sometimes they need a push. And then they start doing it. And then what you said, you never know what their outcome will be, because maybe someone will invent a new iPhone, or someone invents something else. But if they don't, if they would not put their thoughts out if it wouldn't start acting, it would have never come out. So you need people to be the catalyst for other people.
Meilin Ehlke 52:53
Genau, to be creative.
Arjan Erkel 52:55
That is how I wrote in my story that you can find freedom. That you can find opportunities. That you can connect with people. That you can find the middle. Between the radical Islam and me being from the West we found the middle. And we need to find altogether, so you need the outside also. You need the creative people.You need the weirdos because they also have energy. But at the end, it needs to come to the middle, because otherwise, it's not going to develop.
Meilin Ehlke 53:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can feel the energy. It's putting a smile on my face, of what you're creating this intention, and you're acting on it. And it is important for us to act, even on the smallest, it can become huge, or even if we already know it's gonna become huge start it. Feel comfortable to be yourself, not to hold back, if you do feel restricted, I invite you to read Arjan's book 'Held Hostage - One Man's Story of Trial and Triumph, after Being Taken Hostage in Dagestan'. Or read a little bit on his website about the girls he rescues, and the organization he has built. And maybe you can support that a little bit, or point others in that direction. Or become aware of what is happening around you and how you react to life.
Arjan Erkel 54:35
Yeah. Be open and curious.
Meilin Ehlke 54:39
Be curious.
Arjan Erkel 54:40
Those people in the past that went out to discovered the world, there's so much more to discover so if you're curious, you can discover. If you're not curious if you won't, you will miss lot's of things.
Meilin Ehlke 54:52
I'm like you Arjan. I don't believe the world is dangerous. Sometimes I do go backwards in life, but then that's only for a moment and there is then the forward movement again. And everyone we're beings of movement. We're not created to be in a fixated state.
Arjan Erkel 55:13
No.
Meilin Ehlke 55:14
We are supposed to move, to be free to explore, to travel into the world. Even I traveled all the way on Zoom to the US, I met, Arjan, even though he is in the country next door. Next to me here in Germany, right? But start meeting people from all over and start opening your heart and your ears, and your awareness of what exists. Don't get yourself to dug under too many pillows, or blankets, throw those away in your tempo. Really do it in your tempo. Arjan, you did it also in your tempo, right? You had to find your rhythm. First a daily rhythm to survive.
Arjan Erkel 56:09
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 56:10
A rhythm to approach, others, then a rhythm to communicate. You found a new rhythm with nature and the list goes on. So, fantastic to be in a presence with this energy of doing and exploring curiosity, creating and looking at everything that happens for a stepping stone.
Arjan Erkel 56:40
Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 56:41
And an opportunity to reflect, and to create a better choice.
Arjan Erkel 56:47
Yeah, it good what you said. Because sometimes you need to do, it is not nothing, but you have to slow down. I think Bertold Brecht he is one of yours.
Meilin Ehlke 56:59
Yes, he is German.
Arjan Erkel 57:01
He said, "Once I was standing still. And actually that was a big step forward". I don't know how he said it in German, but it's got to stand still every now and then. Because people are always on the move. Like what you said about rhythm, live your own rhythm every now and then. Definitely. You don't have to be in a hurry all the time, you don't have to listen to all the people around you. Most of life is not so important. But we have to believe that life is so important and all other things we're doing work whatever. Other things are also worthwhile to pay attention to.
Meilin Ehlke 57:45
Yeah, so the importance of ourselves. I try to teach that, Arjan. I can speak about that a lot. That we see our importance. Why we're here right now, it is important. We're not just a byproduct. There is a reason why we're here. And to step into this and to say yes, I'm important.
Arjan Erkel 58:05
Yep.
Meilin Ehlke 58:06
And I control my own life. So, do that. So thank you very much for your time and your your wisdom, and the energy you're sharing.
Arjan Erkel 58:21
Thank you for having me. Yeah. It was great to meet you already in the United States and now we meet in Nuernberg and Rotterdam.
Meilin Ehlke 58:28
Maybe one day, right. So, everyone. The doors are open, my doors. I invite always people to come in, so Arjan will be coming on day.
Arjan Erkel 58:38
I have friends in Nuernberg too.Yeah.
Meilin Ehlke 58:39
I know I'll meet you I we know it's one of those days.
Arjan Erkel 58:42
Ok. And you will come here.
Meilin Ehlke 58:44
This is how you build connection. Just say yes to yourself and say yes to other people and discover what they have to provide for you.
Arjan Erkel 58:54
Yes, for sure.
Meilin Ehlke 58:55
So thank you very much for listening to the Moving To Oneness, a podcast. I'm Meilin, your host and with us we had the fantastic Arjan Erkel. Bye Bye everyone.
Arjan Erkel 59:08
Ok. Bye, bye. Thank you.