The Episode explores the transformative power of creativity and cultural exploration, emphasizing the synthesis of diverse elements to foster unique artistic expressions. Rabbi Alon C. Ferency and Meilin Ehlke discuss how creativity serves as a form of spiritual healing, advocating for the importance of overcoming societal constraints to access one's full creative potential. The conversation highlights the significance of embracing creativity in the present moment, promoting unity, vulnerability, and courage in sharing personal experiences. Enjoy...
Rabbi Alon C Ferency, known as the Eclectic Cleric, is a distinguished religious figure celebrated for his innovative approach to creativity and exploration, deeply rooted in his comprehensive background in religious studies and extensive cultural experiences. Rabbi Ferency champions creativity as a vital process for both artists and individuals, advocating for the integration of diverse sources and the exploration of new possibilities. He believes that through exploration and discovery, people can experience the joy of novelty and satisfaction, while also emphasizing the importance of courage, vulnerability, and listening as means to connect and heal in a detached society. His conversations, including those with individuals like Meilin Ehlke, underscore the spiritual and transformative power of creativity, encouraging spontaneity and play as pathways to unlocking inherent creative potential and fostering unity across communities.
Key Takeaways:
- Creativity involves merging different elements to create something unique and meaningful.
- Connection, listening, and vulnerability are important in the creative process.
- Exploring different cultures through travel can lead to gaining moral imagination, empathy, and humility.
- Creativity is viewed as a form of spiritual healing that can help individuals overcome past wounds.
- Creativity is inherent in everyone, but societal expectations and gender norms can stifle it.
- The importance of wholeness and completeness in achieving a fulfilling life is stressed.
- Integrating diverse sources in art allows for a powerful and eclectic approach to creation.
Time stamps:
(00:07:19) Synthesizing Elements for Meaningful Creativity
(00:20:59) Cultural Immersion for Empathy and Perspective Expansion
(00:24:29) Transformative Power of Art in Healing
(00:30:46) Unearthing Creativity: Embracing the Present Moment
(00:35:29) Striving for Completeness: A Journey Within
(00:44:22) Embracing Diverse Influences in Art
(00:46:22) Fusion of Diverse Influences in Art
Connect with Rabbi Alon C. Ferency here: https://www.eclecticcleric.com
00:00:07 - Meilin Ehlke
Moving to oneness. Nourishing curiosity. Embracing differences. Becoming one.
Being present in many different ways with open ears, wise words or input so you can find what you are looking for. That's going to be maybe the main thing that is going to come through with my beautiful guest today. So stay tuned what this multitude on wisdom will bring into your life.
Hello everyone. I'm Meilin Ehlke, your host of the Moving to Oneness podcast. And everyone, I have a fascinating. As I said, I always have fascinating guests on the show because we as human beings, we are magical, we are grand, we all bring our essence to this world with our purpose. And more and more of you are living this purpose and bringing that out. And I think our guests are really people that are doing this and for you to synchronize with so in your life, it is easier to do the same thing. So welcome with me please Rabbi Alon Ferency out of Knoxville, Tennessee. Hello.
00:02:01 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
So far away. Yes, yes.
00:02:02 - Meilin Ehlke
It is really not so far away.
00:02:03 - Rabbi Alon C. Ferency
You should never play favorites with your children or your guests, I suppose.
00:02:07 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah, but I'm always so excited when I have guests. Maybe because I love doing this so much. I believe Alon, when two people come together for a conversation, that comes from the heart, where we really, as you do that in your profession. Right. Open the ears to take in what others are trying to express or have difficulty to express. Right. And you give them the safe haven to be there and using the words that touches and uplifts someone else and giving many other things of that one carries along in a conversation, I think that is just so enriching and that catapults us forward.
And then you know, we have all these spirits that come around us as well. And synergy. There's something new being created and I love creation and I know you do as well. That is, I think, your essence. If I would give you one essence, that moves you forward, that keeps you going, that helps you to do what you're doing and bringing it to so many people in this beautiful world.
00:03:27 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
That's very dear. You are, you are reading it correctly, if generously. It's very flattering. I hope I am all those things sometimes. I do try. I mean certainly creativity is so close to the core of the way I understand myself and teaching people to hear is something, to listen and to attend to others and to spirit within them, is so necessary. Now I think we've become certainly in America, I can't speak for other nations, although I sense it's worldwide. So detached from each other to great pain and rage that is very sad to me. So maybe in a small way, bringing healing through connection and having people listen to each other and create together or for each other, that is a hope.
00:04:20 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah. I think especially also the people are lonesome, especially in all of this and maybe our conversation or any conversation also my audience has with anyone, they have to be a little bit more courageous in opening up and sharing a little bit more deeper what is within all things one hasn't shared. So we surprise the other person or the other people in front of us or around us. And through that, I think it's like a uuppp. And then they open up themselves and share a little bit more. And I think that would be something nice. We all start to share more because then that's a huge invitation for others to share.
00:05:11 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah. The courage of vulnerability. The courage to create was a phrase I used a lot maybe a year ago. Courageous. Hard to say. Courageous creativity. Yeah. It requires a lot to express of oneself. It requires a lot to be vulnerable to another. It requires a lot to listen. Honestly, I think. I would say some of that is gendered, but I think for every human, it's difficult. I think more people have a conversation and just wait for their turn to talk than truly listen to the other person.So
00:05:44 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah, it's an art. It's an art, but it's a natural piece of us. Right. So because we're all artists by heart, we are all creators, we constantly create, maybe not always what we love to do. Maybe we went a different path or we didn't listen to our own intuition or others held us off from doing what one loves. But you use art in many different ways. You do your music. You're a drummer. Yeah.
00:06:23 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I started drumming, I think to call me. I had a drum and maybe my fifth lesson last night. To be called a drummer is very flattering also.
00:06:32 - Meilin Ehlke
But what is it? There's something within you that explores it. Why are you using a drum? So are you connecting to something really ancient?
00:06:43 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
It was very flattering. A former client sent me some music. We were sharing in text message, some musical suggestions. You should listen to this. I should listen to that. And he said that I really like that you're always willing to explore. And I was very flattered. I think that is a piece of creativity is the exploration and the discovery. We're always people who are hyper creative or attuned to that or want to discover. I don't know if they want novelty or discovery or just the feeling of exploration. Maybe all three.
00:07:13 - Meilin Ehlke
What do you understand under novelty? That's an interesting word you used.
00:07:19 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Well, novelty, I think maybe isn't the right word. But understanding new experience, novelty can be dangerous. I mean novelty can be just a new the latest stream on Facebook or Twitter. But gaining a deeper understanding, peeling the layers back of life, seeing new realities and then creating.
So much of creating is really about synthesis, taking these two disparate elements and putting them together. For example, I was most proud in my synagogue career of working with an existing role playing game and then bringing in the stories of Hebrew Bible to it. And so we had 10 or 12 people around a table playing out in real time acting out these stories from Bible playing sort of adjacent characters to King David fighting Goliath and so on. And I think sometimes creativity is just realizing that two great tastes go great together. As they used to say about Reese's peanut butter cups and peanut butter and chocolate. Who would have thought those two would be delicious? And they're. Not everyone likes them. Or mint and chocolate chip. That's my favorite ice cream flavor. So, I think sometimes creativity doesn't have to be that hard. I think, you know the same thing of meditation, right. We've made meditation to this very esoteric experience that isn't available to many people. And people think you have to clear your mind and go vacant. But sometimes it's not that different from daydreaming. And we're all pretty good at daydreaming if we let ourselves be.
00:08:44 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah. And I think daydreaming has gotten a bad rap. It has a negative connotation. Maybe we got it from school. "Oh, he was daydreaming all day instead of listening to me". But it is really, I think, very shamanic. It is. We're dreamers and we set intention and we sit there and create. We go into connection with everything. If I sit in the sun, even if I look out of the window, I connect with the trees outside. Sometimes I observe the clouds or the birds or the sun. So, and in that moment I go into connection. So daydreaming is really going in connection and being, feeling part of the whole. And also there it's in a recognition of oneself that one is part and I think also is beautiful if there's everything that we see in nature.
00:09:46 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
It's funny, I just had a memory when you were speaking of towards the end of college, one of the careers I thought about taking and began to investigate was being a dream researcher. Totally forgot about that. And I even read a couple of books and visited some professors and professionals. Yeah. And I think you know. And I realized as you're speaking that I go to conferences. When I would go to conferences, I wasn't always listening. I was letting the words flow over me as the daydream started. The best part of conferences was ideas that crystallized while I was listening.
00:10:19 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah.
00:10:20 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Wasn't this specific textual knowledge book learning. It was thoughts that came to me as I was experiencing all that. Yeah. There's such a power in letting the mind loose. I think that is. That's the creativity also. Right. Sometimes you can't solve a problem by staring at your computer screen. Often you can't.
00:10:41 - Meilin Ehlke
The stimuli, the word stimuli came when you were speaking about a conference. It's an old way when people come together. Right. Even in caves, we come together. If you're in a group or in a circle or you Alon, also have like sacred story studio. When people come together one person starts and that brings and ignites an idea in someone else. It ignites healing. It ignites a poem, a rap, I don't know, in an ignition or it can be ... Even though you're talking about words or poems and suddenly you think about, oh my God, there is a beautiful way to do my next dish at home and how to cook it. Because the rhythm that one hears brings the rhythm into the kitchen and how you start cooking. When we begin to see that it can touch so many other parts in our life, whatever we do, that it's connected. It brings something full, like a fullness, a flavor. You can grab it.
00:11:55 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah. It seems so much of the themes of your work are or could be a reference to the Talmud where that says, "that whenever two students gather together to learn that God's presence dwells between them." You know, So I think the experience of connection and learning and understanding from each other and listening in a way that awakens the mind is holy. That's what I'm hearing from you. Correct me if that's not what you're saying, but that's what I'm experiencing from your words. Is that thought that there is holiness in the encounter?
00:12:27 - Meilin Ehlke
Oh, I think so, yes. I don't use the word holy. I like that word as well because it means it's whole. Right. As well. If I just look at the word sacred, I don't know, you can use divine. But I really like the word holi what you're using because then we don't feel not whole. And then I think that's important. So often in life people feel not whole. They feel segregated, they feel pulled apart. They feel stagnant and compressed. Yeah, Alon. And this is really what I love to bring to people's attention. 'oh, you're really a beautiful being. And you're like a flower. Just open up and share all the ways you are, and live all those parts. There's some people that maybe concentrate more on one thing because they love it. It's in them.
But there are many of us, and maybe through my experience, what I've experienced myself or just what I saw in others especially. A lot of people that talk about creativity many years ago, decades ago, it's used different nowadays. And you speak a lot about creativity too, and how healing it is. But for many decades, it wasn't something, if you were too creative, you wouldn't make money or whatever. Now there is a different way.
My biggest pain is that we feel that we can be in each moment what we want to be, that we don't have to censor ourselves, we don't have to censor our words, our thoughts. And even maybe if it hurts in a moment, the other person. Sometimes we, you know, you don't think, but it just comes out because of one's own pain, that the other than his open up, like, oh, that hurt. But then they can both heal in that moment something.
00:14:24 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
That requires a level of forgiveness that a lot of people don't have, an openness. You know, I think we. We can become combative in those moments. Even I noticed that with my wife. You know, even. Even those you are closest to, sometimes the reaction is just to be reactive. And I think there is value in counterpoint to bringing our best selves to moments. Right?
00:14:48 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah.
00:14:48 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I always felt when I was a pulpit rabbi, I enjoyed the difficulty of bringing my best self to each moment and having to be the most adult person in the room. I never felt inauthentic, but it was a version of myself that was my highest self and my most forgiving, my most graceful, my most empathetic, even at the times I wanted to be wicked. So, when I played games, when I play tabletop roleplay games, I tend to play evil characters just to let my IT out.
But, yeah, I don't know. I think there is a way to balance that. That authenticity that you're describing and not having it be a splattering all over the other person, but doing it with love and compassion. There's a saying in recovery communities, 'that honesty without love is just rudeness', you know, so you have to balance that.
And someone said, 'that the Bible without love is just archeology'. One of my colleagues.
So I think as we teach faith, as we teach authenticity, you know, being. I don't know, it seems like we've entered a very narcissistic age of really only caring for self. You know, I notice it when I go walking in the woods and I hear people playing music loudly through their phone, staticy music. And I think, not only you're not respecting the music, you're not respecting the woods. And the people who are passing by who don't want to listen to your podcast, not your podcast, but I mean, they're just playing a podcast very loudly about a subject that doesn't interest one. You know, it distracts from the moment we have. We have all these responsibilities to self, to be authentic and true to self, but also to be loving of others. And maybe those don't need to be intention, but they both need to exist. So although I could be wrong.
00:16:37 - Meilin Ehlke
And no, you know, if I look at history, and that sometimes hurts me, why are we this way? But we have to look so far back. When other countries conquered other countries, right? One country, the first thing, what they destroyed was community. They took away the healers, and also then they took away the language. So now we're learning. I think we're also in a phase that I see that we're coming back to look at really what words mean. Also to build and learn again, to be in community. And you, as a rabbi, probably, you've created communities. You have led many groups. I mean, groups. Yeah, in a way.
00:17:32 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah. Classes. Communities.
00:17:32 - Meilin Ehlke
Right. You have a talent to move many with your words, with your presence, with your ideas that come down, or your touch and your eyes, you know, your smile. And we're going, I think back to that slowly, to feel comfortable and also safe in community, because it was also then shown over these thousands of years that you're not safe in community, that it's better if you isolated yourself and more condensed and you don't share. And so they took away, I think, a little bit of that. And the younger and younger generation, I sense they're bringing that a little back. And that is what I love seeing.
00:18:28 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I mean, some of the communities are not so caring. Some of the ways we're building community now is around political alignments, cultural alignments, tribalism, and aggression towards the other. This is my group. That's your group. Stay away. And there are ways to be more caring. There is a sort of benevolent tribalism.
I lived in Central Africa for two years, and in my town, there were four main Ethnic groups and, you know, four main languages. And they ate different foods and drank different beers and some didn't drink beer. And it was never, I'm going to go kill that other group and take over their neighborhood. It was, I don't like their beer. They enjoy their beer, they enjoy their food, but it tastes bad to me.
I think there was a way to respect each other's culture that we are losing, that we want to have hegemony over the other culture. I think in the need for community is the need for the right kind of community. Some churches can be very benevolent in a society and some can be destructive. And some sports leagues can be very positive. And then, you know, they can also incite riots. So, I don't know. And I wish I could agree wholeheartedly, but with caveats that we have to set the right intention as you do and ensure that the culture is healthy, which is very hard. And having worked inside an institution, it's very hard to adapt culture.
And then it's hard to keep people together. You know, it's hard. It's hard. And I wish it were as easy as your experience, because in my experience, it's been challenging to keep people together for more than a few meetings or a few months.
00:20:23 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah. Maybe setting a goal. So maybe many people don't have strong enough. Goal is the. Not the wrong word. So let me think what it is. For me, I'm just thinking. Wow, I'm in certain groups for decades now, but there is a way where I want to go, but it's not like I want one, but I know I need to go. It's like it comes from my beingness.
00:20:56 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Of like an aspiration.
00:20:59 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah. Like exploring myself. I just know there is more. And the more I learn and together. And there's like a whole group that is interested in bringing this beautiful way of life. Maybe one thing, maybe that, you know, the shamanic way. But also then there is. What else is there? So it's really. Then also the learning of everything that exists and finding answers everywhere and collecting them and bringing them from around the world. Yeah, maybe it's a very awkward place I am in. But this is what I find so fascinating.
So I love to travel the world and get. similar to you, get to know the cultures and learn from them. Because there is maybe the recognition I get for myself, the understanding for myself if I observe others and learn from others in different ways I have not explored yet.
So maybe when we were talking about before we started the interview, about travel and how in ancient times people moved through the world so much they were able to walk. Right. There were aborigines all the way in Norway, the Sami. And yeah, people walked so much and traveled before. Maybe it is time for us again to travel and to immerse like you did two years in Africa for a time to immerse ourselves in other cultures. It provides, it gives us, it makes us a little humble.
00:22:40 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
That's a good word for it. And it gives us moral imagination and empathy.
00:22:44 - Meilin Ehlke
Yes.
00:22:44 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Going back a second, what you have these groups that you've been in or communities you've been in for decades. What do you think the secret is to holding together a shared experience? Because I have not been able to it.
00:22:57 - Meilin Ehlke
A shared aspiration. A shared aspiration.
00:23:00 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
You all have to invest in the same desire.
00:23:03 - Meilin Ehlke
No, maybe also shared experiences. I think maybe that if I think about the desire, maybe a little different, but there is maybe a nook of that in everyone. They come from different directions, they come from different perspectives. We're all different, but we all want to bring our best as we are here on this earth. I think that is the one thing. But also the shared experiences over and over and over time. And I think that's it. Not just the spoken word. So maybe these are rituals or ceremonies.
00:23:43 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I was about to ask about ritual. Ritual. I mean, you know, if you look at it anthropologically, ritual tends to hold peoples together through religion and faith and even political ritual.
00:23:52 - Meilin Ehlke
Music. Yeah, making music, living often, if we can, together or in smaller groups. And this way we get to know each other deeper over the years. Creating again and also having the ability to nudge another, each other forward. And exactly like you are. With an open ear, listening, providing healing, but in very compassionate way to each other. Whatever another person needs, someone is there.
00:24:29 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
It sounds very therapeutic. Yeah, certainly what the world needs. I mean one of my first interviews after ordination or while I was at the end of seminary was for a job at a college. And they looked at my resume and kind of heard a lot of experiences of healing. And I had never thought that about myself. But it is a theme, you know, and as you say it, the idea of creativity as a kind of spiritual healing makes sense to me. And then healing being sometimes a prerequisite for making your best art. Right. You can be carry the wounds of your church, carry the wounds of your synagogue, the wounds of your family, the wounds of early creative experiences or anti creative experiences. And then healing from them allows one to create more richly.
00:25:18 - Meilin Ehlke
Oh, beautiful said create more richly.
00:25:22 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah, I should put that on my website. That's a good. I'm not very good at marketing phrase, but that's a good. That's a good one.
00:25:29 - Meilin Ehlke
But the richly of abundant. And again, like a good soup. I use a soup or a dish from a different point of perspective. When there are so many flavors.
00:25:35 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I wonder if you are hungry.
00:25:40 - Meilin Ehlke
No, I can eat all day.
00:25:42 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
This is the second metaphor of food. Now you're making me hungry. Soup. That does sound. I have an uncle who doesn't like soup. Can you imagine not liking soup?
00:25:52 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah, I don't eat many, but if I make them or if I do cook, I have to think about how many cultures I put in my dishes, what I've learned from their dishes. Yeah, I learn through food.
00:26:10 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
For sure.
00:26:11 - Meilin Ehlke
First of all, I'm very connected to what I eat. It's important. I cherish the animal, the fruit, the seed, the water. I know it nourishes me. It nourishes the ones I cook for. And put all my love in there.
That's when I travel as well. All my experience. You know, you stop at the street and eat from a vendor or you go into a restaurant, you learn so much. And the hustle and bustle and having and trying the flavors, the new flavors in your mouth. It's an explosion of sensations again, experiences. I just love that.
But I can do the same. I can sit on something, but I do the same. If I look at a flower or a plant or if I'm in a different kind of forest. Each forest has a different history. So I really go into the depths or in the fullness, again, get going back to your word, into the wholeness of what is right there.
00:27:23 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Kind of mindfulness come naturally to you or have you cultivated over years?
00:27:28 - Meilin Ehlke
I'm noticing that I've been always this way. And I asked many others and they told me I was as this way already when I was young. And if I look back to learn to understand myself or to tell people how I am. I was this way. You know, if I felt enclosed, I ran away always. Or I would go run outside.
00:27:52 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Would you describe yourself as an introverted kid.
00:27:56 - Meilin Ehlke
Yes. I was more silent? I was more silent. Even now I can be days silent.
00:27:53 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
That sounds great
00:28:02 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I have four small children, I love days of silence.
00:28:06 - Meilin Ehlke
But then I love also to go out in again and be under the hustle and bustle. This juxtaposition. For me it is this playing, this dancing together. But for you too. You have to be. You were speaking about being a healer. You see people's energy, art or creativity, their art healing. And you use that in all of your life yourself.
00:28:35 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I mean, you flatter me so much. I don't know if I'm a healer or not, but I care about healing. You know, I can say a couple of things for sure. I don't know if I'm funny, although maybe I am. But I love to laugh and I don't know if I heal many people, but I care about healing and I try to pay attention and I try to listen. You know, I don't know if there's an objective standard for any of those things. Right. They matter.
00:29:04 - Meilin Ehlke
You make me think, what is healing? You know, healing is not that, oh, I create transformation, which we all do. We create transformation for our presence because our light goes through us and touches someone else or something else that is already change. So healing is change. Healing is also, if we say something beautiful and a person is able to relax into this beautiful word or into the wisdom, as you say, or your presence of letting them explore a few thoughts, like in your salon, whatever that is already healing. Because we expand and as when we expand and more of our light can flow through or cosmic light and go out again, this expansion is already healing.
00:29:54 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Well, it's certainly good for people. I mean, you've kind of used the image of contraction a couple of times, and I think about that sort of retreat and contraction is definitely not productive to creativity. I mean, I think there's a pulling in and a drawing in of information which you sort of describe as the observant and quiet child that you were and probably still contain. And then there's the expansiveness of giving it away in some new form of art. It's hard. It's hard. I think the world has so many messages that aren't helpful and that are, you know, impairing and not healing.
00:30:32 - Meilin Ehlke
It's really interesting. You say it's hard, but you're doing it the whole time. So is it not. It's not hard. Why do you see it? Maybe it's not a question for now, but think about it, maybe later.
00:30:46 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Creativity isn't as. I mean, maybe that's why I like to teach it, because it's something that I've always had. So it's not hard for me to be creative. There's an openness and a quirkiness to me. And sometimes when you're good at something and it comes easily, it's hard to teach it. But I think in this case I can explain it to people. How you access that Part of you. How you get into yourself and the self that is the most rich and the most unique and the most spiritual. And from there comes the art. And you need to unburden that self. One of my closest colleagues talks about an oyster pearl in an oyster below the ocean, under the mud. And there's an excavation of the pearl to get to it and an excavation of the soul to get to it. But it's still quite beautiful and always there.
So I think people lose it. You know, I debate this. Is everyone creative? Is everyone an artist? Is everyone talented? I really don't know. You know, one could make the case that we all are, and many of us have just repressed it or been contracted it, as you use that word.
But I think it's possible for everyone to find those things, or at least everyone I've worked with. I don't have a huge data set, a few dozen people. You need, you know, you need to work with thousands of people to get a sense of, 'is there a person out there who is just not creative?' I don't know.
00:32:11 - Meilin Ehlke
Even I can't think about it. It's like we would go into the world and say, is a tree or a shrub creative or not creative? They always create a new leaf, they create a new flower, they create a new branch. Doesn't matter what temperature it is, right? And if it's raining, if there's snow, if there is a drought, then they just wait and create something inside for a while. And maybe they pull back and come back next year brand new.
So every single moment, any thought, any action, is a creative expression, in my words. And I think often we see the word creativity, maybe from art sellers or something, critics that tell others when a painting is really expensive or not. Or a teacher who can say to a child, it is creative or not creative, and very early, I think in life, it's killed. You know, they already say, oh, boys can't be so creative when painting or writing, so beautiful. And then they're so amazed. And if they do even create, then they do less because they said, oh, I'm a boy, I can't do that. Because they. All girls can paint like this, but that's rare for, you know, it's things like this. We put it over people, others put it over us. But if we look at creativity of creating every moment, and you speak a lot about that, if there's a problem and we solve it, that is already creativity. If it's more analytical. We even do that, we say the left side and the right and the one is more creative then the left. So we even have one side.
But even that, I think if we always separate out and try to distinguish, it hurts us more than saying that it's rich and whole and everyone is in their way different. Maybe another person doesn't understand it so well or can't see it yet because they hadn't had an experience as someone else. Or you were speaking about it before the beer. So the one tribe was so used to that beer, they had developed certain taste buds that maybe the others didn't.
00:34:43 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Right. Assoziation with family.
00:34:46 - Meilin Ehlke
Genau. That we open up to what is. And you speak a lot, you know, as a rabbi, you speak about creativity and creation the whole time and that everyone is a creator in connection with others.
00:35:08 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I think also going back to your idea of left brain, right brain. Yeah. I'm not sure that's real. I'm not sure that brain versus heart is real. I'm not sure that soul versus body is real. I think we create these dualisms as explanatory things, but they have limited helpfulness. And then you talk about wholeness. And I keep coming back to the Hebrew word which is often translated as peace, but really means wholeness and complete. I more and more say completeness, bringing the self to completeness. Not perfection, which isn't real, but a certain wholeness and completeness and fullness of life and from which springs certainly more mature art.
00:35:53 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah. Peacefullness
00:35:53 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
And peacefulness. Yeah, I think, I mean, that's the idea, right? That's the idea in Hebrew Bible is that peacefulness comes out of harmony. It isn't arrived at by lack of war only. It is also about harmony and wholeness and completeness and people having what they need. Those become prerequisites for enduring peace. We translate it as peace often because we're looking at the outcome. But the word itself and the necessity is for wholeness and harmony and completeness for people and societies too, which is much harder.
00:36:31 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah, that's a really interesting observation. So, if we look at the holiness not as. Only as a sacredness and divine, but again as the whole of being whole. And it works in English.
00:36:44 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:36:47 - Meilin Ehlke
Right. That all of our parts, we're peaceful with who we are and we are peaceful with what is existing. And as you said so beautifully, we're in harmony and in balance with ourselves, with each other and with the world, our out there and supporting each other to be in this more harmonious space. This is peace. What is right is this peacefulness within. This beautifully expressed. Like when you look at the moon, you feel it inside this harmony and this balance. You just know it.
00:37:23 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
What percentage of your day and your life do you think you spend in that space?
00:37:28 - Meilin Ehlke
Oh, a lot.
00:37:29 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Oh, do you? I'm not sure I spend enough time. I think I struggle with it. I work towards it, and I have moments, and certainly more moments than I did when I was younger and more anxious and more driven in certain destructive ways. But I think I still struggle with it, you know, to feel at ease in my own skin. I have moments and days, even days and probably periods of it. But the anxiety and dread and self. Not so much self loathing anymore, but self doubt still, you know, I still experience that. And I think those get in the way of the wholeness. And then some of my work as a rabbi to artists is just being a cheerleader and loving them into fullness, you know, Loving. Sometimes we need people who love us more than we know how to love ourselves at the time. I've definitely had that in my life. Yeah, people who believe in you more than you believe in yourself at the time, people do. For me, it's always been rabbis.
00:38:25 - Meilin Ehlke
You were lucky, and I was lucky. Sometimes there were professors or strangers, they're saying they saw me.
00:38:35 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah, yeah. A new possibility.
00:38:36 - Meilin Ehlke
And they believed in me. And I think this catapulted me forward. And you just said the same thing. So, the more I see others and tell them what I see, the beauty that I see within them, the more they're able to do it with others. And then it just is like a. Like a fire. It just goes everywhere.
00:38:58 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Cascades. Yeah.
00:38:58 - Meilin Ehlke
Cascades. And you do that too. And I think it's very... Honorable is not the word. But I really love that you also say how difficult it is and you share that because most people are in that struggle and they're finding.
I had those times too. I went. I don't know, I went through some really, really over and over and over. There were periods, but I was lucky. They were more condensed. Maybe here and there. There were a few years, and now I even condense it really quick. But then I know I go in there to transform it or get a wisdom out of it or pull out the purity, the truth of it..
00:39:46 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
The lesson. Yeah, yeah, there was. You know, I don't. It's. No one knows if Proust said this actually, but there's a apocryphal quote that he says, "we suffer, therefore we think". So there's value to suffering. And I think that is actually in, I think, proverbs, there's merit and struggle or sadness. So it all matters. You know, these moments of mistrust or doubt matter because they get us somewhere if we're lucky. And then I don't think we ever get to 100% of self soothing and wholeness because life is finite. Maybe if we lived forever, and if we were vampires and lived forever, we'd figure it out. But it's a trick. You know, when you grasp it, you have these moments sitting in the sun or by the ocean or just half awake, and you feel in touch, you feel whole. And sometimes it slips away and you just have to remember it when you need it. For me, it's always laughter. I always need more laughter. I was really lucky to hear the Dalai Lama speak in New York City. He came and spoke, I think, in Central Park, and he laughed a lot. And I always expected him to be very serious and comprehensive, large in his speech. And it was just very small and humble and full of self amusement at the absurdity of life. And I was like, oh, that's actually a spiritual place too. And it felt much more of a place I could go. So, I do try to laugh easily.
00:41:23 - Meilin Ehlke
That's a beautiful way of touching people. And it's. What's the word? You know, when one laughs and then the other one laughs, it's, oh, infectious. Contagious. Yeah, infectious, Yeah.
00:41:36 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I wish I could cry more easily. That I can't do. Well, I wish. Crying feels so relieving and I can't. I wish I could call it up on command.
00:41:47 - Meilin Ehlke
Now. That's deep, deep acknowledgement of oneself when one cries. Go into it and look for it. It can be closed off by others so fast. So it's so important that we don't tell our children because once we cry, we know how beautiful it is that we cry.
00:42:11 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Oh, for sure.
00:42:11 - Meilin Ehlke
Because in that moment, you know, uh, something is being moved out and it goes. And I can share it with the world. And the water crystal. Right. Even if we're that tear. Yeah. It is so important that everyone out there let your children cry. Cry yourself. Don't stop anyone for crying. Let them flow. Don't touch them for a moment. Just be present so they really can cry even longer. That's a little tip I've learned and many shamans taught me. The more we can let it go, the own body starts healing through those tears and it provides hope really quickly.
00:42:57 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I learned not to even give people kleenex I mean, there's Kleenex around if people are talking to me, but I know I don't hand it to them. Yeah, sometimes people hear that as. You can stop now. Yeah, I don't even. I just let it go. And as long as I think that's, you know, I can't think of all the benefits of meditation, but the one that's very clear to me and I try to explain to my kids is the ability to not do. The ability to pause and to live with discomfort for a lot longer and to turn my thoughts right. I have the, you know, in the way we lose it, people can lucid dream and steer a dream. I can start to steer my thoughts. So when I feel uncomfortable, I just kind of have this metacognition, this awareness of self. Like, yes, you feel uncomfortable. Maybe you can sit with that longer. Or if you're angry at a spouse or a friend, you know, instead of reacting, you kind of pause. That's been a very valuable gaining from meditation. And I see that. I've noticed it as you're speaking, and I kind of want to absorb it. And I know it's awkward on a podcast because people want to hear the awkward pauses. Pauses in a podcast are a different kind of problem for the listener. But as I absorb what you're saying, I'm comfortable with silence in a way that I never was.
00:44:11 - Meilin Ehlke
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all of your wisdom. And it's important, I think, that people are able to reach you.
00:44:22 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Certainly hope they do.
00:44:22 - Meilin Ehlke
How can you tell people how they can reach you and come in touch with you and be more in your. In your presence and your compassion.
00:44:34 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
You're very. Again, very, very kind. I have a website. EclecticCleric.com Eclectic as in scattered and cleric as in, you know, a fancy word for a religious figure. Someone said that of me once in a newspaper article. Eclectic Cleric.com or at Eclectic Cleric on almost every social. Whether it's LinkedIn or TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Eclectic Cleric. If you can remember those two words, you can find me. And you can easily Google my name. I have an odd enough name that it's easy to find. And you're welcome to schedule through the website some time to talk. That's no obligation there, no fee. Just to chat. I also have a newsletter people could subscribe to if they want to learn more. So those are some options.
00:45:22 - Meilin Ehlke
Oh, fantastic. Yeah. Everyone take time to just look at. Also his beautiful website. It's smoothing it, really. Yeah. Your energy comes through. And I was just looking at your last word. So there's also a little. The energy or frequency, it's in there. So you're already living yourself and you're going to do more. And when you said eclectic, I thought right away, oh my God. Eclectic is pulling so many things together from everywhere. Like, it's also. That is what. For me, it's eclectic. And so you probably always know what to do because you have such a vast source to pull from. So anyone can be comfortable wherever they come from, whoever they are, and I think they will feel very safe in your presence.
00:46:22 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I hope so.
00:46:45 - Meilin Ehlke
That is what I love about you.
00:46:28 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I was very honored when a former student was describing being at his synagogue in a class and he said, he mentioned Voltaire, Chris Rock, and the prophet Jeremiah. He had learned that from me, how to integrate, you know, really diverse sources. And I was very proud. I think that's also, you know, where art comes from is these integrating of. Of the eclectic can be very powerful for artists. So.
00:46:48 - Meilin Ehlke
Yeah, because something new comes out of it. Something that grabs you and pulls others along. And when we're open, that is fun to express what we are, what you are, what I am. That's so important to see each other. So final words.
00:47:07 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
One of my mentors.
00:47:09 - Meilin Ehlke
Finish your sentence. with your mentors.
00:47:11 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
One of my mentors used to say that 'God speaks the language of surprises'.
00:47:15 - Meilin Ehlke
Oh, that's a good one.
00:47:17 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:47:18 - Meilin Ehlke
But now I want one of you for the audience. What can you say to a person to be more creative out of this moment as you are right now?
00:47:33 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Go out and do it. Go out and create. Go out and play. Don't delay. You know, Goethe said, "do not hurry, do not rest". I think go out and make something, whether it's art or anything, just and play. And remember what it's like to feel that childlike joy of making something new and something fun and how it. How it carries you through the day. Just go out and do. I think is what I wish for people without waiting.
00:48:09 - Meilin Ehlke
Without waiting. Yeah. I think the energies of the times really support what you just said, Alon.
00:48:15 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
I hope so.
00:48:18 - Meilin Ehlke
Everyone follow that there is now also a supportive flow of light if you would do it, or the energy in the cosmos to bring out who you are right now, to explore and try it out and show it right away. Because then again, as we. You hear it heard so well during our conversation that I had here with Alon. Is that when you bring it out, the feedback comes. No, not feedback like in a critic but a response and you're creating new experiences and you build on that. So see it as something that builds on and that is already whole but gets wholer because it gets larger and more expansive and more fun to play with. Ach, Alon, thank you very much.
00:49:11 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Thank you Meilin for your time. It has been nice to spend time with you.
00:49:14 - Meilin Ehlke
Your beautiful present, your words. Yeah it was like a beautiful cup of tea together and sharing our beingness with others and each other.
00:49:25 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Thank you.
00:49:27 - Meilin Ehlke
So thank you very much. I wish you a wonderful day and everyone out there connect with Alon.
00:49:25 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
You too. Enjoy your soup.
00:49:27 - Meilin Ehlke
I do have to make a soup then today. [laughter] It's cold enough here.
00:49:42 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
It is good soup weather.
00:49:44 - Meilin Ehlke
You have it warmer In Memphis. We have soup weather, fog, wind. It's a little bit wet and that's perfect. So maybe at home you do some soup as well. Wherever you are around the globe, a cold one when it's hot, a nice smoothing one that feeds your soul, nourishes your soul. I'm Meilin and I wish you the best. Bye bye.
00:50:11 - Rabbi Alon C Ferency
Bye.